ENLIGHTENING: (From left) Sudipta Das of Ernst & Young, Rajeev Dubey of BW, Mike Thompson of Trane, Mili Majumdar of Teri and Pankaj Gupta of Trane. (Photographs: Tribhuwan Sharma)

Rajeev Dubey: Maybe we can start with an ode to the incandescent bulb. What do you think of the demise of the incandescent bulb? Are other countries going to take the cue from the US?

Mike Thompson: There is a tremendous opportunity in the lighting industry for savings, not only with CFLs (compact fluorescent lamps) which have replaced the incandescent bulb, but also with LEDs (light-emitting diodes). LEDs are more durable, more environmentally effective and use less energy than CFLs. In one respect, we are getting rid of the incandescent, but I’d like to look to the future and see what LEDs can bring, and what more opportunities we might have for additional savings.

Dubey: Pankaj, your thoughts on the demise of the bulb?

Sudipta Das “The builder does not reap the benefits of cost reduction in green buildings, hence, the lack of initiatives by promoters”

Dubey: One fascinating thing I have read about is light-transmitting bricks. Apparently, there is a Belgian technology, which is commercially available, called Caltron. This seems to be one of the biggest initiatives in trying to build green buildings. Mili, any thoughts on how soon can these become mass-usage products in developing green buildings.

Mili Majumdar: When we talk of ‘green designs’, it is more of an integrated design approach in which the architect plays an equal role as a systems provider. So in terms of products, they definitely have a market, provided the costs equal benefits, because the Indian building industry is very, very cost-sensitive. Even for LEDs, I would say, we have a long way to go in terms of costs. When we talk of the incandescent lamp vis-a–vis CFL, again it is an approach in silo. CFL is not the only solution. In fact, tubelights are more efficient than CFLs. So, it’s not really only about a lighting technology per say; it’s about integrated design approach.

Dubey: What is the largest component of running costs of a building?

Majumdar: If you take the total lifecycle of a building, the initial cost is about 2 per cent. That’s the global average. If you look at an air-conditioned building, 40-50 per cent of energy cost is on account of the air-conditioners (ACs), 20 per cent on account of lighting and the balance would be other equipment on an average.

Dubey: What will be the most crucial areas for constructing such ‘green’ buildings? What can be done to ensure these buildings are change ready? Should such plans be looked at the stage of construction?

Sudipta Das: We have to start right from the design stage. In India, most of the commercial buildings are made by someone, and used by someone else. The builder constructs a building and sells or leases it to a buyer or a tenant. The benefit of cost reduction is not obtained by the building promoter, hence, the lack of initiative at the promoter’s end.

K. Yatish Rajawat: If you have to give it a push so that builders realise this is a better way of functioning, will it come from the regulatory side or through awareness?

Mili Majumdar “Green products have a market provided the costs equal benefits because Indian building industry is very cost-sensitive”

Thompson: There are some regulatory ways and minimum performance standards. Some countries, such as Australia, and even the US, are beginning to see if a government facility is renting a space in a building, it must be a green building. I think there are tremendous benefits to the owner. One of them is the resale value of the building.

Das: In the past two years, energy-efficient buildings are catching up and regulation helps. But, commercial reasons are better drivers. Some of the green buildings also qualify for carbon credits. That is one more area of revenue for the owner of the green building.

Thompson: The cost of putting up a green building is much less today than it was 20 years ago, because we now have more widespread acceptance, mass production of materials, etc. So, every year we get closer to a point that makes it more realistic.

Dubey: Do you think green buildings will be driven better by regulation, or by use?

Majumdar: There are regulations in India. All buildings which are more than 20,000 sq mts. and townships that are more than 50 acres of built-up area have to seek mandatory clearance. Also, the Bureau of Energy Efficiency has brought out the Energy Conservation Building Code (ECBC), which is voluntary as of now, but there are plans to make it mandatory.

Dubey: In terms of running the building, which component is showing maximum improvement in terms of efficiency?
Majumdar: Energy, of course.

Dubey: What are the constraints in using solar energy? One does not see it being used much.

Majumdar: In India, we are using solar energy in two ways in buildings. One is the solar thermal application for water heating, which is mandated in several places. This is cost-effective and a proven technology. But solar photovoltaics is a technology that is still evolving. It is still not cost-effective. At a solar housing project coming up in Kolkata, they are trying to work with the regulator that if you generate energy on the roof and push it back to the grid, then you get a better cost of electricity from the grid. Such innovative financing mechanisms would give such projects a push.

Dubey: Progress in terms of efficiency is slow. Any great technologies coming up?

Das: We have technologies coming which greatly reduce energy consumption in air-conditioning. A lot of green buildings coming up in India today use these technologies. Technologies that make the cooling system, the chillers, the blowers more efficient.

Mike Thompson “Lighting innovation is shaping up very fast. One area that is still untouched is computers”

Das: One of the difficulties we face now is that we do not have too many architects or building designers who can design a green building. We need more architects and planners with green building solutions.

Gupta: Teri’s GRIHA gives certain points for using renewable energy. Probably, if those points are increased, it will give a stronger push to the market.

Majumdar: I don’t think that would be enough of a driver. My apprehension is about building integrated use of photovoltaic (PV) panels, which is very popular in Europe. It also complements their need, as Europe and the US have heating-dominated requirements. So, if you are replacing your atrium with a PV panel, you are getting the heat and using the roof as a heat element. Both things are complementary.

But India has cooling-dominated requirements. So if you put too much of atrium spaces for the sake of using PVs, then you are also adding that much of heat to the space, which you remove through air-conditioning. So, on the one hand, you are putting renewable energy, and, on the other, you are increasing energy consumption. These design issues have to be resolved at the planning stage.

Dubey: Countries such as Germany give a fairly high subsidy to home owners who install photovoltaic panels or are turning their buildings ‘green’, using material which is bio-degradable, and putting in waste disposal systems. The German government subsidises up to 75 per cent of the cost of the photovoltaic panel. We don’t have anything of the sort in India, do we?

Majumdar: One such programme of ours has recently been resumed. But it is limited only to government buildings. The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy has programmes for facilitating such initiatives. In the private sector, it may become difficult to manage funds, hence, the delay in implementing.

Thompson: We have to be cautious about having a product which is reliant on government subsidy for it to be viable, because as a manufacturer I have to be careful as that subsidy may not be available some day.

Pankaj Gupta “There is a lot of potential of lowering energy consumption through heat recovery”

Thompson: The air-conditioning industry is not an industry with huge jumps in technology. We progress slowly over time. The large chillers that we have today consume about half the energy than some 20-30 years back. That’s a tremendous improvement, but it is very, very slow. I do expect the industry to improve further, although not in huge leaps. In an air-conditioning system, there are many different components. Many times those components are bought from different manufacturers. We put in a lot of effort to look at how those components can operate in conjunction with one another. Again, this is early involvement process. We may be able to consider not only operating costs, but installed costs too. It might require us to think differently than we did 10-15 years ago in designing air-conditioning systems. But if we do that it can even cost you less money if you design it in a smart way. The controls continue to get better each year.

Das: Even on the domestic side (window ACs or split ACs), I think the cost has come down for a one-tonne or one-and-a-half-tonne AC in the past three years. Also, there is huge competition among manufacturers today about energy consumption, in terms of per tonne of cooling.

Dubey: HVAC (heating, ventilating and air conditioning) has not evolved yet. For instance, lighting is seeing a lot of technological attempts, including the use of optic fibre to transmit light and bringing natural light into the room. How soon do you see any of these technologies becoming commercially viable and affordable for housing units?

Thompson: I think lighting innovation is happening very fast. One area that hasn’t been touched is computers, as these increase the load on air-conditioning. I don’t think there’s much competition at all in developing computers and monitors that use less energy. People are more focused on bigger and faster computers and not as much on energy consumption.

Gupta: One area of technological advancement which needs to be explored more is that of heat recovery. There is so much potential of lowering energy consumption through heat recovery.

Dubey: Our greatest hope so far is solar energy, where we have some amount of acceptance.

Thompson: Yes. You see more and more people doing that. The challenge that we have with solar is that it is not quite reliable and you need to have a back-up. This means that you have to put two separate systems. Technologies which require back-ups will be slower to catch on.

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(Businessworld Issue 24-30 June 2008)